Curse

jmasters · May 20, 2005, 02:53 AM // 02:53

OK, let me just say at the outset that I'm not trying to start a debate about the merits of PvP people and/or PvE people (I can appreciate both preferences), nor do I particularly want to start a discussion about who should and who should not have a Celestial Sigil.

For me the issue of how you should be able to get a Celestial Sigil seems to have been resolved by the game designers, but is not being realized now for one reason or another. If you talk to the person who sells the islands for guild halls in game he says that Celestial Sigils are awarded to those who are victorious in the Hall of Heroes, BUT he also says that many people don't enjoy fighting other guilds so they can buy a Celestial Sigil from the trader. This is a perfect solution for both sides; PvP guilds get their halls by PvPing for status and PvE guilds get their halls by PvEing for gold.
The problem is that the trader is too frequently out of stock. I suggest that they give the sigil trader an infinite stock of Celestial Sigils and set the price at whatever amount they deem appropriate (exactly like the guild capes).

Dubby · May 20, 2005, 03:01 AM // 03:01

Although I am not that far in the game myself, I thinkt he current system works to some degree. It helps ensure some level of quality in GvG battles. (If that is indeed how it works, if it aint correct me xD)

And the trader is where someone sells a sigil to them... then they have 1 stock of sigil. (Or so I believe)... A simple auction house that manages dyes, items, and materials per town (including all districts in said town) would work better in my opinion.

jmasters · May 20, 2005, 03:26 AM // 03:26

Well, I can say that keeping GvG battles competitive for PvP people is good for PvP people, I don't think that it shoudl rpeclude PvE people from enjoying the game. I think that if it becomes an issue they should finetune the way that GvG happens so that people can decide who they fight adn who they don't waste their time with.
In any case, the current method isn't helping improve GvG play at all, because non-competitive guilds can still by sigils, just at hight prices. Unfortunately, gathering gold does not translate to good PvP skill or else that might work out.

Jackell · May 20, 2005, 03:40 AM // 03:40

Well, a large side of the argument is also the PvE guilds that don't want to pvp getting one. My advice to them is not the sigil trader, but the guilds that win and want to sell them. It may be high priced, but money is what PvE guilds are good at, while winning and getting the Sigil is what PvP guilds are good at. They both kind of need each other. The PvE needs the PvP to get and sell the Sigil, while the PvP guilds need the PvE to buy it from them so they can make some money back from the time spent pvping and not gettng any.

Cymmina · May 20, 2005, 03:26 PM // 15:26

I don't know what the sigil sellers usually price them at, but why not just have an infinate supply of sigils and let the price work off of supply and demand, like dyes and resources? If the base price is 20,000 for a sigil from a vendor, demand would quickly tripple or quadruple the price. I mean, look at black dye. Most dyes are barely over 200, but black is 1,200+.

Even if every sigil in Tombs was sold at this point in time, I doubt there would be enough supply to give every guild a guild hall that wants one. At least guilds would have an option to buy a 60,000 sigil from a trader or try to get a bargan from PvP guilds.

jmasters · May 20, 2005, 04:06 PM // 16:06

I think that is a fine solution too Cymmina. I suppose I overlooked it at the beginning because I thought I didn't want people camping the sigil trader to be able to affect others. But, in your solution, they would increase the price for themselves as well and then have to sell it cheaper than the sigil trader (which would make htem lose money) to remain competitive. Great idea!
As far as every guild not being able to have a guild hall... I think there is a lot of hording going on, which leads me to believe that if all celestial sigils currently held were available for purchase by anyone at anytime (even at a high price) that demand would be completely if not nearly satisfied by now.

jmasters · May 20, 2005, 04:12 PM // 16:12

In response to Jackell, I think that his solution works in theory, unfortunately the reality is that not enough people are selling . People are camping the sigil trader and hording the stock (so they didn't get it by PvPing) meaning that the largest supply of Sigils are held by a monopoly/oligopoly that increases price. While this is how a market works, I don't think the intent of the game was to have sigils controlled by a player run market without alternative.

JohnCoke · May 20, 2005, 04:12 PM // 16:12

How does PvP need 50-60k in gold? What on earth do you have to buy that cost that much? Besides superior rune of vigor, which I disagree with its cost too. I'm seriously wanting to know this. Can someone answer it?

KrystenDeathknight · May 20, 2005, 04:20 PM // 16:20

I just posted a rather long winded thread about changing the way sigils are aqquired but this is a much simpler and just as effective method.

I think 20,000 fixed price for sigils would be a fine amount and would work well. It would at least allow smaller guilds a way of obtaining them so they can still have friendly fights against their friends Guilds or Guilds of the same skill and size. It would also still be a challenge for small guilds to make 20k considering a lot of small guilds out there only have 4 - 10 members.

Also larger guilds could still go in to HoH and win sigils to sell for 10 - 15k in order to make their guilds money. Lets face it 10 - 15k is not an amount to be sniffed at. The current 90k asking prices are pretty OTT.

I like this idea a lot.

JohnCoke · May 20, 2005, 04:22 PM // 16:22

I read your post. I agree with you by the way. Oh, and although I have a guild hall, I can imagine how frustrating it is to work and toil up 30k from your guild. Then the price is 45k, then 60k. I'd give up. A set price would be a good answer, but I like your quest idea better. Either way, make it where PvP does not dominate an aspect of PvE.. why isn't there an aspect of PvE that dominates PvP (character based, meaning characters of PvE control characters of PvP gameply)?

Just wanted to add, I'm mostly PvP and rarely venture into PvE. Your not alone in your thoughts, but I'm hard pressed in my guild to get them to do HoH and release the sigils. It takes time and practice, they've got they're guild hall and most (not all) are uncaring as the next. I had one extra sigil I sold for 5k at the 30k market price.

Luggage · May 20, 2005, 04:35 PM // 16:35

The top armor is 1.5K a piece - thats 7.5K for one person to get a "normal" ascended armor.

A guild hall is a damn Island with a Fortress on it - I'd say it should cost a bit more than at least the normal armor for 8 guildmates. (60K)

But that's just me.

I mean the "Cool" armors are 15K a piece, thats 75K for one person...

JohnCoke · May 20, 2005, 04:44 PM // 16:44

Sigh, Luggage, the Cool armors arent needed for gameplay neither is the top armor. The guild hall is needed for some aspects of gameplay. Also the armor HAS a set price, and other players DON'T GET TO F WITH IT! That's the point. 60k hmm it was 10k, then 20k, then 30k, then 45k, then 60k... where does it stop? Soon there will be no 'new' guilds left, for noone without 10-15 members that have ascended will afford 500k in they're first couple months of playing. It's a design flaw, they even stated they wanted to avoid "grinding" or farming or buying off of ebay. This only promotes it.

thorizdin · May 20, 2005, 04:46 PM // 16:46

I keep seeing this complaint on various boards, and my first response is always the same. The design team put in one reward that exclusively enters the economy via PvP, and people continually complain about it. First off, there is no in game benefit from a GH, the only thing it gives is the ability to do GvG. If you aren't able to earn a sigil via pvp, why do you want something that only allows you to GvG, which should/will be more difficult than tombs? (This is not neccesarily the case ATM as so many teams compete for Sigils.) The next thing that comes to mind is that a decent farmer can earn 8-10 platinum an hour and almost anyone can earn 500 G doing newbie missions as level 20's. You are all level 20 aren't you? The next thing that is also true is that the price will be going down, the price is set by demand and right now there are lots of people who have to have it right now.

JohnCoke · May 20, 2005, 04:50 PM // 16:50

Your argument is flawed thorizdin. We're discussing in a different manner. Search for Krysten's message. She puts it blatantly that they ARE interfering with game play. Even small guilds of friends want to battle each other, deny them this you say? Well ok, guess there is no point in this game after all. They give you the ability to challenge specific guilds, I suppose you think this should be reserved for uber l337 guilds also? Where do you farm to get 8-10 platinum and hour? Really. I want to know? And since you seem pro-screwing over everyone else. What do you need 60 plat for? Honestly. I asked this before.

Sadye X · May 20, 2005, 05:05 PM // 17:05

Just a quick minor response to thorizdin's post , as I'd already left a longer one on Krysten's thread ...

Yes, the Sigils are a singular, yet major reward for pvp guilds. And what is the singular, major reward for guilds who go through the entire pve end of the game ? Yes, you make more gold, but any pvp guild who's doing well has more than likely also done missions etc to gain class skills ...

I guess my point is ... if it's all fine and good to have a built in major reward for those who primarily focus on pvp, a reward they control the market value on exclusively mind you, then where's the major reward for guilds who complete the mission series that they can set the market price on ?

Sovetskeey · May 20, 2005, 05:14 PM // 17:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by thorizdin

I keep seeing this complaint on various boards, and my first response is always the same. The design team put in one reward that exclusively enters the economy via PvP, and people continually complain about it. First off, there is no in game benefit from a GH, the only thing it gives is the ability to do GvG. If you aren't able to earn a sigil via pvp, why do you want something that only allows you to GvG, which should/will be more difficult than tombs? (This is not neccesarily the case ATM as so many teams compete for Sigils.) The next thing that comes to mind is that a decent farmer can earn 8-10 platinum an hour and almost anyone can earn 500 G doing newbie missions as level 20's. You are all level 20 aren't you? The next thing that is also true is that the price will be going down, the price is set by demand and right now there are lots of people who have to have it right now.

I have to disagree with you. I tried to play PvP last night at the Tomb of Primeival Kings and it was impossible to find a bloody team because everyone down there thinks they're "ub3r-1337" or something. They're complete dicks to anyone who doesn't say "W/Mo LFG Rank 10 with elite skills!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!" While many guilds are on TeamSpeak during GvG, don't give me that crap about how the competition is easier there. That's BS unless you've spent like every waking moment since the game's release playing.

Madjik · May 20, 2005, 05:27 PM // 17:27

Not that im against this idea, BUT it would seem to me that a.net doesnt mind the prices going up like this. Explanation: They recently raised the price on the sigil traders. Now granted, seeing sigils on traders is excessivly rare, but I DID happen to catch the trader when she had one on her recently, and you should know the price was about 45k. I dont like to see the prices rising any more then you guys do but as far as a.net seems to be concerned its appropriate. I dont see this idea happening any more then I see them removing sigil traders completly from the game (ya know, since they rarely have anything ANYWAY).

JohnCoke · May 20, 2005, 05:28 PM // 17:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Madjik

Not that im against this idea, BUT it would seem to me that a.net doesnt mind the prices going up like this. Explanation: They recently raised the price on the sigil traders. Now granted, seeing sigils on traders is excessivly rare, but I DID happen to catch the trader when she had one on her, and you should know the price was about 45k. I dont like to see the prices rising any more then you guys do but as far as a.net seems to be concerned its appropriate. I dont see this idea happening any more then I see them removing sigil traders completly from the game (ya know, since they rarely have anything ANYWAY).

WOW. Can anyone confirm this? The trader is going for 45k? That's awesome then, that means ANET is on top of it. They're trying to make it worthwhile to go to the trader and hopefully prices will reduce. Now if we could only get them to flood the market to reduce it to a reasonable range.

Corwin_Andros · May 20, 2005, 05:35 PM // 17:35

One thing some of you are obviously missing is the fact that while all or at least most guilds might want a guildhall.. Not all PvE guilds want to GvG either. My guild only has 8 members currently and we got lucky and got our sigil for 25k.

EVENTUALLY we'll have enough people with enough experience to make GvG worthwhile. But for us the real thing is the fact that our guild has a home to call our own and its a place where we can have our guild meetings.. hang out and chat if we want in peace and quiet without the spam in towns..

PvP oriented folks obviously have a WAY different mindset than your average PvE person. But exploiting those sigils the way they have been is done out of either greed or elitism. So its either "Let's see how much we can soak these chumps for" or "You didn't EARN your sigil.. so you are just gonna have to pay through the nose for it."

Sad to say that unless the Sigil traders start having a game provided ready stock at a set price.. it will take months for the prices on sigils to drop to a reasonable amount again. By then most people will either have guilds through one means or another or there are going to be some PvP guilds with vaults FULL of unsold sigils they are slowly milking the market with.

Nothing like having a monopoly on the market.

I understand that selling sigils is a pure PvP guilds best way to make money to buy runes and other items with.. but there needs to be some sort of limit. Someone made a comment that the current prices aren't bad considering that the most expensive armor for PvE characters costs 75k per person. That's true.. but PvP players get their armor for FREE. Not great for comparison is it?

I just don't think its right to try and drain someone or a group of people dry of their hard earned gold.. just because you can. The game does it enough with the price of armor and things without us all doing it to eachother with unreasonably high prices.

Whoa there.. Slow down.. end rant.. step off the soap box..

Madjik · May 20, 2005, 05:37 PM // 17:37

Ker~shnapples! Are people really selling these things for 90k now? I havent been paying much attention to sigil prices since they were too much for me at 40k. I guess 45k from the trader aint so bad now.

Dunno if someone else can confirm, but I did indeed a few nights ago see a sigil on the trader for 45ish k.